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History Bottom Novgorod

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1

Offical The story Bottom Novgorod holds about how, that
in 1221 year, on fusion of Oka and Volga was built fortress, which was eastern abroad Vladimir principality.
Relatively the emergence of an adjective “floor ” ,-in the title cities in more later with the territory sources, there are several assumptions:
For differences from Novgorod Great and other Novgorodov, because city was in “nizovskikh lands ”;
City was below relatively “Old town ”, situated higher on Oka;
City was down on Volga-from Gorodets, Nizhny Novgorod Oblast.



Most obviously, that word Novgorod means New capital. But this just-only the second from two words in the title cities. That means the first word "the Bottom"?

If ask people, that means word "the Bottom" in the title "the Bottom Novgorod", then be can, 90% of them responds, that this distinction from cities Grand Novgorod, and means it, that the Bottom Novgorod resides downstream rivers. But this myth, with enough stupid. Deal in is, that a modern Grand Novgorod not is nor on Oka, nor on Volga-and at all in these networks convinces Tongge. Grand Novgorod is in Tongge Batiyskogo sea.

Offical The story tells, that ties, with Grand Novgorod here indeed there is no. States, that on Oka initially was built fortress, that called Novgorod (a new city), and resides he was higher downstream on, (domyslivaem) somewhere on lines one scallop - Bogorodsk. Then was built a new fortress, in more favorable place, its called the Bottom a new grad. Then the old fortress came in iaaiaiinou or was destroyed by fire, and has moved in retreated, and the Bottom Novgorod remained and is worth until now in the form of red Kremlin.

Focus in is, that official version of even stupider the most myth.

http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1397325072/9ee23fee/4809252.jpg

0

2

kicking intolerance official version of.

initial Novgorod could not be built "slightly above" downstream on of Oka. Why? Because that place a grid. The main the Russian river, entitled Volga, was largest trading route from Asia, Persia and India in central Russ, where were cities Vladimir, Moscow, Kostroma, Suzdal, Rostov, Yaroslavl, Uglich and camping on Afghan.
Questioning fortress "slightly in side" from Volga, simply foolish. I nor for that not feel, that ancient ancestors possessed reflection build cities and simultaneously said something stupid with choice seats construction. Obviously, that fortress, which now is called the Bottom Novgorod, was built immediately same on this place without any first option.
If would was so-called "Novgorod on Oka", then from him inevitably remained would traces, but their there is no.

http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1397324991/4cc06d98/4809139.jpg

If so, the where same was contingent "Upper Novgorod", camping on E. Initial Novgorod?
The answer: Novgorod this city Yaroslavl
Yaroslavl - in past this "Яroslavogo dvorische Great Novgorod", under this "Grand Novgorod" - this name state, not cities

There arises question, far same under this "loss" a modern city Grand Novgorod?
Deal increasingly in is, that Grand Novgorod - he same state, he same Yaroslavl. Yaroslavl, likely, was renamed in Yaroslavl, after, as has lost status capital, roughly 633 year ago.
A modern Grand Novgorod, this a small city on a swamp, petty fortress in the past, which its "greatness of the" received in later Middle Ages, when sostavlyalas "seligyorovskaya The story."

Voznikayut questions, when, why and why.
let us deal.

http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1397325267/bada8963/4809371.jpg

Location location fortress "the Bottom Novgorod" initially was here,
On fusion two broad rivers.
Word "the Bottom" - means an effort downstream on, relatively of the City of Yaroslavl.
Word "Novgorod" - means name state "country cities"
(13 th age, language was other, the etymology words was another)

0

3

http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1397325164/e755f785/4809288.jpg

Why I at all developed an this question?
Deal in is, that currently in Russia marks a new celebration, Day Unity. His've timed to "liberation Moscow from Poles and overcoming great of distemper."
Events belong to 1612, year. History liberation entourage Kozma Minin and Pozharsky, directly connected with Bottom Novgorod.
But me is unclear route this’s army, he not behind in logic.
Us say, that Minin and Kozma, raised and estimated for liberation Moscow, but have moved they not on Moscow, and north, in city Yaroslavl. In Yaroslavl they conducted very large time, about year, after what went ??? on Moscow and ended great distemper.
But this same as least strange, why Vigilantes not went through Arzamas or through Ryazan, or not directly through Vladimir? If they shipment in Yaroslavl and there "stuck", then this after all need than something explain.
Why they went in Yaroslavl?
.
Explanation this issue there is, but it not behind in official de

0

4

Sravnim a modern Grand Novgorod and modern the Bottom Novgorod, and so same their strengthen.
Grand Novgorod, Square 90,08 kilometers, population 219 925 man (2013)
The Bottom Novgorod, Square 410 - 466 kilometers, population 1 259 921 man (2013), Aglomeratsiya 2 081 152 chol.,
Grand Novgorod, this provincial fortress, with-Wall 76M and meters.
The Bottom Novgorod, this provincial fortress, with-Wall 1250 meters.
In medium-size century quite small and virtually equal crummy old town.
One fortress is on greater distance in the West, another on East. In the center of the are cities Golden rings.
Logic suggests, that capital, too, must be in the center of the, and this and there is Yaroslavl.
That same concerns increased, two Novgorodov, then in absent this were extreme lines, which gradually became in centers trade
Grand Novgorod in the West, and the Bottom on the east, and there and there we know about Trade activities.
Across likelihood Grand Novgorod, initially was built as Western fortress, to the Swedes not been doing that. Likely was called "he on Different, and modern name him gave officials Catherine two.
The Bottom Novgorod received more a strong development, because was on fusion three big aquatic pathways.
Grand Novgorod, received modest development, because was on a swamp, where not was roads.



.
Sravnim two cities, which are near Pskov and Grand Novgorod.
This Pskov. 39 towers in wall Kremlin
Length fortress stone walls, accounted for 9.5 kilometers
http://www.olga-pskov.ru/images1/1.jpg
.
This Grand Novgorod, Number of towers 12
The dimension walls 1487 flushed
--
.
Attention question:
What city more are of significance, the have which 12 towers and and a half miles walls, or the, have which 39 towers and 9.5 kilometers walls?
The answer:
Pskov this distinguished fortress, Novgorod - this petty province, simply fortress. Grand Novgorod could not be its capital and could not be Grand

0

5

http://s3.uploads.ru/rEZGp.png

This map is meant to amply show, that Grand Novgorod at all not the great.
Attitude to maternal Russias has most an indirect.
.
In Golden ring includes — Sergiev Posad, Pereslavl-Zalessky, Rostov, Yaroslavl, Kostroma, Ivanovo, Suzdal, Vladimir, Alexanders, Bogolyubovo, Vladimir Oblast, Gorokhovets, Vladimir Oblast, Goose-Nutcracker, Dmitrov, Kaliazin, Kideksha, Moscow, Murom, Tailed, forming, Plyosskoye Urban Settlement, FC Krylia Sovetov Rybinsk, Hereship (Tutaev), Uglich, St. George-Polish, Shuya, Nerekhta (River) and camping on D.
.
Grand Novgorod - this remote fortress in the West. In length fortress walls just 1450 meters. Is worth on a swamp, nothing from themselves not represents.
The that he is historical and cultural important center this the excerpts. The only value there, this wooden roadway, which quickly moves away under quagmire, that historical mudazvony called "cultural layers" and other nonsense.
Historians "gave" there Russian de, to sell yet us noodles on ears.

0

6

http://s1.uploads.ru/fmnhj.png
I tried to project population size Bottom Novgorod
On the basis several censuses, namely:
1221 year - 0 man
Sometimes year - 15 100,000 man
1897 year - 90 100,000 man
1939 year - 643 100,000 man
1989 year - 1 403 100,000 man
2010 year - 1 280 100,000 man
.
Of course, increasingly accurately establish impossible, means, need to borrow that have and domyslivat its head.
Is unknown as and when was produced calculation, the difference can be because, that Kunavino not was Bottom Novgorod, is unknown, vklyuchalos whether it in 1811 and in 1897 s.
.
Most importantly this schedule population growth, which vividly illustrates the ratio ????????, their current with those, which was in medium-size century.
One of tasks, understand, what number average army could be in average a century have moreover or conjures state.
Take into consideration, that number rural population was 90 and more% from total powers in 19 century. In medium-size century the ratio was not such, because as cities were nothing short as rural populations. People preferred to live for walls, and a day to work in field have walls. Living naeyi in villages was it is doubtful, so as this immediately slavery or annual Beggaring the from incursions anyone anywhere.
If as now in Russia, then number army less 1%, in the USSR 2% from total inhabitants.
Of course, that in medium-size century army was more than 2% from number of inhabitants. The kind army, which was leaving go and pillage, was percent 5, and the kind, which nowhere not has gone, and was in constant willingness reflect assault on percent 30 from number of all inhabitants, camping on E. Increasingly Atkins population cities.
Of the taiga all figures, can be done Iron conclusion, that in all battles number troops overestimated Letopistsami for, to ensure burn swag moreover, who won battle, on the principle of whom writes de the its and dancing.
But most inappropriate an exaggeration number of warriors of course shown in films, often dorisovyvayut under aid computer, for scale paintings and overbilling budget.

.
Who climbs in de (usually historians, which're chewing our bread), the usually not understands, that population size in medium-size century was very a small. Population size 2000 years ago, was tiny, respectively The ancient Greece and Ancient Rome this artifice. Not has no meaning, how many people paints Hollywood in movie "Spartak" or "Gladiator", this would still as lies, which is having on us bad influence. This is increasingly an art lies.
If would not gorbachyovskaya liberalization (murder of Russians), then in lower Novgorod now would had roughly more 2-'s million people.

0

7

.
https://www.raremaps.com/gallery/enlarge/35942
Interesting map, is taken hence
https://www.raremaps.com/gallery/browse … amp;page=3
.
http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1397246911/27d82c78/4799119.jpg
.
Interesting map: Place / Date: Amsterdam / 1720
Instead Gorodets, Nizhny Novgorod Oblast, outlined city Torgovitts. The first time such hear. Gorodets, Nizhny Novgorod Oblast - on legend, city, in which died Alexander Nevsky.
Balakhna Urban Settlement, Plyosskoye Urban Settlement - correctly. Between them Khoroshevits some
.
South part of current Nizhny Novgorod area summed up as Nizovaya Deriava.
Can mean purchase, and can Fighting Trees.
With topping, that current trees the most old about 180 years, not discarded, that trees 300-400 years ago, were rare.
Below even word seigneurie, in the diversion with European means Ladyship /
/
Basse Britons - means the Bottom Novgorod, only this word applies to earth, not point on it
Royaume quo Cazan - devices dreams made
A sua localizacao quo Volodimer - of Vladimir-Suzdal Duke
Principau quo Cashine - (about Muromians) Kashin - ownership Prince) (SC - is happening from rivers Oka) (Kashin, Qasim (town), financial, Kalomna). On what something Slavic, 2009 review meant river, so same as and DON - River
CZEREMISSA LUGOVAIA
CZEREMISSA NAGORNAIA - ?? Bottom Novgorod and Arzamasom there is village such a Cheremas, I have there year-old recreation. But on a map these name quite not there
.
Interestingly, that on this map Volga is lapsing in Eye has seen, not Oka in Volga

0

8

"South part of current Nizhny Novgorod area summed up as Nizovaya Deriava.
Can mean purchase, and can Fighting Trees. "- on fact initially - power (from verb keep).

This map obviously replicates more early, kopirasty mixed up Latin hew i j

0

9

Yes, accurately. Not observed obvious a spelling.
.
Derjava, Aa?aeaaa, Hold, Russian language on ancient maps.
Latin hew from-for any religious ban simply.

0

10

Yes interestingly. Will need think as all of this fabricating for cultural rise of Russia. Us now oops as the rises need!

0

11

Dmitry" wrote:

kicking intolerance official version of.

Initial Novgorod could not be built "slightly above" downstream on of Oka. Why? Because that place a grid. The main the Russian river, entitled the Volga river, was largest trading route from Asia, Persia and India in central Russ, where were cities Vladimir, Moscow, Kostroma, Suzdal, Rostov, Yaroslavl, Uglich and camping on Afghan.
Questioning fortress "slightly in side" from Volga, simply foolish. I nor for that not feel, that ancient ancestors possessed reflection build cities and simultaneously said something stupid with choice seats construction. Obviously, that fortress, which now is called the Bottom Novgorod, was built immediately same on this place without any first option.
If would was so-called "Novgorod on Oka", then from him inevitably remained would traces, but their there is no.
If so, the where same was contingent "Upper Novgorod", camping on E. Initial Novgorod?


Perhaps this not "Upper Novgorod" and "Upper city" orto the appropriateorVyshgorodok
orVyshegorodin Upper Volga?
http://heraldry.com.ua/_arms/vyshg1_s.gif

0

12

Нашел русскоязычный атлас, датированный 1737 годом. "Атлас сочиненный к пользе и употреблению юношества и всех читателей Ведомостей и исторических книг"
Издательство: Императорская Академия Наук. Дата издания: 1737

Мировая карта:  http://dlib.rsl.ru/viewer/01008016098#?page=17
Важно: На карте видно, что Новая Земля и Япония - полуострова

Карта европейской части России: http://dlib.rsl.ru/viewer/01008016098#?page=19
Важно: На карте видно, что Нижний Новгород не входит в состав России

Last edited by TM_IGO (Jul 22 2016 16:43:23)

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13

#p74010,TM_IGO wrote:

Нашел русскоязычный атлас, датированный 1737 годом. "Атлас сочиненный к пользе и употреблению юношества и всех читателей Ведомостей и исторических книг"
Издательство: Императорская Академия Наук. Дата издания: 1737

Мировая карта
Важно: На карте видно, что Новая Земля и Япония - полуострова

Карта европейской части России
Важно: На карте видно, что Нижний Новгород не входит в состав России


Глаза б не смотрели на дебильное тартарийское творчество!  :angry:

Вот этот типа Атлас типа 1737 года , еще один сервис для просмотра
http://primo.nlr.ru/primo_library/libwe … =permalink
Это я ровно минуту его листал.

Набрали каких-то дебилов с улицы "тартарию" делать - они и делают.  http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1431066687/5026a116/8671200.gif
Цех! Оторвите руки умельцам , которые это делали, и на правильное место приставьте. Они у них из жопы растут.

http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1469197502/e12b2652/13472639.jpg

http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1469197532/be69babd/13472649.jpg

http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1469197638/d741f80c/13472672.jpg

+1

14

#p74013,горожанин wrote:

Набрали каких-то дебилов с улицы "тартарию" делать - они и делают. 

Набрали каких-то дебилов "официальную историю" делать, они и делают..
Горожанин, к сожалению у картографов 300-летней давности, не было последних общесоюзных инструкций ВЦСПС по алфавиту.
Гораздо быстрее можно распознать фальшивку, если надписи на картах сделаны шрифтами Microsoft-Windows без ошибок и отклонений, как например Ukraine на картах якобы 15 века..

#p74010,TM_IGO wrote:

Нашел русскоязычный атлас, датированный 1737 годом. "Атлас сочиненный к пользе и употреблению юношества и всех читателей Ведомостей и исторических книг"
Издательство: Императорская Академия Наук. Дата издания: 1737

Мировая карта:  --
Важно: На карте видно, что Новая Земля и Япония - полуострова

Карта европейской части России: --
Важно: На карте видно, что Нижний Новгород не входит в состав России


http://funkyimg.com/i/2esHM.jpg

Нижний Новгород находится прямо на границе, между Россией и Сибирью, а Сибирь находится между Волгой и Уралом, всё правильно.
Статус границы неопределёееый, она примерная или условная, Романовы знают только то, что оттуда засланники не возвращаются.
1737-й год, столица России, С.Петербург, гнездо Романовых
В 1737-м императрицей России была Анна Иоанновна, а кто был в Тартарии (?), была ли это страна или неприступная территория(?), вся информация уничтожена.
"1737-й" - До казни последнего настоящего русского Царя, равно как и до раздербана Сибири, Дальнего Востока и западной Америки, остаётся ещё 40 лет. Европейская знать, в том числе Романовы, ещё понятия не имеют, как выглядит западная Америка, Новая Земля и Япония. 
http://dlib.rsl.ru/viewer/01008016098#?page=17
(на важные ресурсы набирают программистов как всегда каких-то идиотов, браузер не понимает что это за ссылки)

Карту рисовали хорошие картографы того времени, но у них не было достаточной информации,
либо они умышленно искажали, давая первые наброски будущей глобальной переписи Истории.
http://dlib.rsl.ru/viewer/01008016098#?page=41
Например Монголию они рисуют южнее высоких Гималаев, что является логическим абсурдом или например не знают о существовании Синайского полуострова

0

15

#p74035,Dmitry" wrote:


Реальные идиоты.

Италии в 1737 году в помине не было.
Германии в помине не было.
Польша была Речью Посполитой почти до самого 19 века.
Турция появилась в 1923 году.

Про ошибку в написании слова "средиземное" и говорить нечего.

http://funkyimg.com/i/2esM2.jpg

+2

16

#p74010,TM_IGO wrote:

Мировая карта:  --
Важно: На карте видно, что Новая Земля и Япония - полуострова

Картограф показывает своё невежество, то есть точно не знает как чего расположено
http://dlib.rsl.ru/viewer/01008016098#?page=59
вот например Япония уже остров, но неизвестной конфигурации. Про существование курильских островов и речь молчит... Они знать не знают.

Собственно о точном нахождении крепости Нижний Новгород на слиянии двух рек, они тоже не в курсе
http://dlib.rsl.ru/viewer/01008016098#?page=19
Турция вообще це Европа.
Картограф выполнял заказ императорской академии наук, наделал кучу ляпов. Скорее всего это немец, нанятый как типа европеец,  оказался халтурщиком. Жалко что он с Ломоносовым не пересекался.

#p74041,горожанин wrote:

Про ошибку в написании слова "средиземное" и говорить нечего.

Разумеется, они не знали русского языка. Шабашники приехали на зароботки,
заказ "Мы тут замутили новое государство на чужой земле, вен зи битте напишите нам Историю данке шон"

Состав Петербургской Академии наук на момент открытия
Л. Л. Блюментрост
И. Д. Шумахер
Я. Герман
Х. Мартини
И. П. Коль
Г. Б. Бильфингер
Н. Бернулли
Д. Бернулли
Ж. Н. Делиль
И. Х. Буксбаум
Х. Гольдбах
М. Бюргер
И. Г. Дювернуа
Г. З. Байер
И. С. Бекенштейн

+1

17

#p74043,Dmitry" wrote:

Картограф показывает своё невежество, то есть точно не знает как чего расположено

Да какие там картографы?

Я еще не встречал ни одной "тартарийской" карты от картографов. Пока что все они - от нынешних недоученных оболдуев.

Они даже слово Сибирь умудрились в трех вариантах написать, Россия - в двух, а Нижний НОUГОРОДЪ - все-таки за пределами России ))

http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1469215792/bfe00514/13476179.jpg

***

И кстати, говоря, тот самый Миллер Герхард Фридрих, вице-секретарь Академии, которой нынешние жулики приписали этот Атлас, был блестяще образован в русском языке и словесности, хотя и немец, и цеховик. Он редактировал «Ежемесячные сочинения, к пользе и увеселению служащие» - первое периодическое литературное издание на русском языке. В нём участвовали все современные писатели, пользовавшиеся известностью; сам Миллер поместил там много статей, касающихся Сибири.

В 1737 году существовали Бийская крепость, с 1660-х  существовал Иркутский острог, к началу 18 века - Иркутск. В 1738 году открылся почтовый тракт на Охотск.

Промышленник Ланин к моменту якобы создания Атласа открыл в Иркутске железоделательный завод, Акинфий Демидов - 9 заводов на Алтае...

+1

18

Ну то, что Новгород - это Ярославль, написал еще Фоменко на заре своей деятельности.
Хотя по сути, ЛЮБОЙ город в какой-то момент "новгород", а в каждом городе есть район,
который старожилы назовут как "новые дома", или что-то в этом роде.

Нью-Ёрьк, Ньюаполь, Нью-Васюки...

Слово "нижний", очевидно же, подразумевает расположение по карте.
И ясно, что оно достаточно свежее, как и вся география, впрочем.

Last edited by sezam (Jul 22 2016 23:01:09)

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19

А вот и узбекский народ с многовековыми корнями o.O

Еще и в 20 веке народа "узбеки" не было; у Брокгауза-Эфрона это социальный термин, правящая прослойка у тюркских племен и народностей. Народ "узбеки" был сделан только при советской власти. 

http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1469219090/cd13fa28/13477106.jpg

Великой Китайской стены не было на картах до 1960-х годов.  "Имперская Академия Наук" исправила упущение  :cool:

http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1469219437/081cdbf9/13477247.jpg

Торопились мля...
Вал надо было гнать.

http://images.vfl.ru/ii/1469219484/b130301b/13477264.jpg

Хорошая картография. Мне понравилась.

+6

20

Нижний Новгород

(много фото)

http://humus.livejournal.com/5124688.html

Last edited by serguta (Sep 27 2016 21:54:37)

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