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Novgorod

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1

Dmitry" wrote:

Grand Novgorod, this provincial fortress, with-Wall 76M and meters.
     . Novgorod - this petty province, simply fortress. Grand Novgorod could not be its capital and could not be Grand


--

What, that you’re trying to imagine as city Grand Novgorod is Novgorod Kremlin-backed - administrative center cities.

The greatest large ring fortifications, Bronze Age covering the entire city on both his poberezhnye parts of — orient yourself side and WTO side, were Wall so-called okolnogo cities, the total length which accounted for11 km.

Medieval Novgorod seemed so so:
http://content.foto.my.mail.ru/mail/gegompa3/4/h-8.jpg
A not so:
http://content.foto.my.mail.ru/mail/gegompa3/4/h-9.jpg

Dmitry" wrote:

Skyfall all likelihood Grand Novgorod, initially was built as Western fortress, to the Swedes not been doing that. Likely was called "he on Different, and modern name him gave officials Catherine two.


Capture Novgorod-Soviet in reported 1,611 year:
http://4put.ru/pictures/max/865/2659471.jpg

Shvedy not knew, that grip over "property province."

Last edited by MucmepX (Jun 9 2014 22:55:38)

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2

http://s3.uploads.ru/rEZGp.png

Dmitry" wrote:

This map is meant to amply show, that Grand Novgorod at all not the great.
Attitude to maternal Russias has most an indirect.
In Golden ring includes — Sergiev Posad, Pereslavl-Zalessky, Rostov, Yaroslavl, Kostroma, Ivanovo, Suzdal, Vladimir, Alexanders, Bogolyubovo, Vladimir Oblast, Gorokhovets, Vladimir Oblast, Goose-Nutcracker, Dmitrov, Kaliazin, Kideksha, Moscow, Murom, Tailed, forming, Plyosskoye Urban Settlement, FC Krylia Sovetov Rybinsk, Hereship (Tutaev), Uglich, St. George-Polish, Shuya, Nerekhta (River) and camping on D.
Grand Novgorod - this remote fortress in the West. In length fortress walls just 1450 meters. Is worth on a swamp, nothing from themselves not represents.


City’s matters in "Golden ring" are on outskirts of ESAs trade pathways.
Cities, torgovavshie with
Ganzeyskim unionare located mainly in Tongge Baltic sea.
http://www.kalimedia.de/111Bilder/Hansekarte_Nebenkarte.jpg

http://media.informpskov.ru/pictures/20110118160234.jpg

Grand Novgorod supported with ganzoy close relations. In offense was one of largest franchisees (“firms in ”, him. Transport Kontor) took — Gotha (Gyotenkhof) and German (Peterkhof) “court yard ” of overseas merchants.
http://www.kalimedia.de/111Bilder/Hansekarte_Nowgorod.jpg

Last edited by MucmepX (Jun 11 2014 07:05:50)

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3

MisterKh, that for example? This I pro last "map." On it a modern basurmanskiy the fine print, modern shape rivers and lakes, their shores of. But are worth dates 12-15 centuries. Enough say, that battle on Chudskom lake of raze could not come according to Trad. ch. Iztoricheskomu insistence! Then in 12-13 centuries was climate is and in April already was the. And you better count those - how many kilometers had to would forbade the to go all the way on marshes from Chudskogo Lake until Novgorod on Volkhov, Russia? Josip Skoko-like? So that Russian troops and in head not time come would telling "warm meeting" on April Ice "- camping on K. Was would simply family would in a swamp! So that have falsifikatorakh-iztorikakh on every turn asymmetries.

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4

constant wrote:

MisterKh, that for example? This I pro last "map." On it a modern basurmanskiy the fine print, modern shape rivers and lakes, their shores of. But are worth dates 12-15 centuries.

This is fragmentsMaps Hanseatic League- such display history took, networks trade routes and information about cities, inside in by their union (about the branches and systems took).
http://www.kalimedia.de/111Bilder/Hansekarte_gesamt.jpg

constant wrote:

Close enough say, that battle on Chudskom lake of raze could not come according to Trad. ch. Iztoricheskomu insistence! Then in 12-13 centuries was climate is and in April already was the. And you better count those - how many kilometers had to would forbade the to go all the way on marshes from Chudskogo Lake until Novgorod on Volkhov, Russia? Josip Skoko-like? So that Russian troops and in head not time come would telling "warm meeting" on April Ice "- camping on K. Was would simply family would in a swamp! So that have falsifikatorakh-iztorikakh on every turn asymmetries.

What the link between trading ways and the Ice balloon fight?
Except roads from Pskov until Novgorod, between lake and Ilmen lakes there was extensive network ancient aquatic pathways.

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5

MucmepX wrote:

What the link between trading ways and the Ice balloon fight?
Except roads from Pskov until Novgorod, between lake and Ilmen lakes there was extensive network ancient aquatic pathways.

- on modern map, presented you, ostensibly armored srendevekove, zaznacheno date Ledovy order, a. In that time raze could not the Coalition.
Another fact, indirectly corroborates, that shifts poles on Earth - phenomenon, hydro place be, with, quite regularly.
From official version of history we all know, that bicycle carnage happened in 1914 year. If version of about shift poles is correct, the in the time on Chudskom lake of could not be no ice, so as Pole was in Nebraska, the US. And that same we are reading in Ipatevskoky Quiet: And there is worth the black on white: "In summer 6750 not meantime enabled." I.e., no important events on to the artist`s Chronicler in this year not was. And 6750 year - this as times 1914 year on a new letoschisleniyu. Could whether chasozvon miss such important event, as the ice carnage, if would it indeed happened? Question rhetorical, of course, could not would. Could whether he not know about offense? , too, could not. Means, his in is year and not was. If it and was, it must was happen after change of poles, when Europeans gravitated lingerie polurazrushennuyu country, which has been on territory modern Russia.
More precisely this legend was invented precisely after shift poles not previously 16 century on the basis any something real, but strongly twisted events.

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6

MucmepX wrote:

What, that you’re trying to imagine as city Grand Novgorod is Novgorod Kremlin-backed - administrative center cities.

The biggest ring fortifications, Bronze Age covering the entire city on both his poberezhnye parts of — orient yourself side and WTO side, were Wall so-called okolnogo cities, the total length which accounted for 11 km.

Medieval Novgorod seemed so so:

http://content.foto.my.mail.ru/mail/gegompa3/4/h-8.jpg


Mr., expensive, Grand Novgorod THAT is what not seemed so. There in Wikipedia written pro this picture "Plan Novgorod, rekonstruyovaniy on“ document content list 1675 year ”. "
Redeem on Russian language: On version of school of, which pereizdavali memories other school of, plan Novgorod seemed so THAT is what. Unfortunately plan different from existing Kremlin, so as is simply fantasy.
.
.
.
Mr., they on this entire LZhEISTORIYu built. Basis lies in next: Historian Vasechkin, made copies with original chronicles Petechkina, which unfortunately turned sour, in the chilling a fire 735 year.
The entire official The story, built on "copies", false statements and re-enactor.

This is fragments Maps Hanseatic League -

This the fragment reconstruction. You indeed not don difference?
Maps (with big hew Ka) study here https://www.raremaps.com
The real map,. There is no. I perhaps write and Podcherknu THE KARTAwhich just something nothing by age (with perspective official historians (demonstration parasites) 450 years, looks roughly so:
https://www.raremaps.com/gallery/enlarge/30806
Novagroda (nouograda) there not one thing, and can is modicum near Poltava, modicum near Bilhorod.
Theoretically, absolutely any city could called Novgorod, if we shall manage understand and keep in our anybody such dimension as CONVENIENT.
Obviously, that 500-800 years ago, language was ONE, namely STAROSLAVЯNSKIY.
.
.
.
Here is map, the real, "17 th age" https://www.raremaps.com/gallery/enlarge/36522
Or such a https://www.raremaps.com/gallery/enlarge/35336
She, as and all the rest real maps, absolutely contradicts official history. Virtually on all maps 17-18 centuries, there is whose giant country Tartar and many small Tartariy. And that same us about this says reform. History? And nothing, she simply speaks out. Simply scandalous speaks out, on expense the most great and the only in World Empire. But includes, to sufficiently gigantic hole, (removed any a lie, any melkoznachimye, microscopic "great novgorody" and they occupy in of History entire volume, divisions in textbooks, monstrous devices and postozvonnykh research. Although, even the very concept of "New city" already means, that this young city, not to an ancient.

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7

MucmepX wrote:

Grand Novgorod supported with ganzoy close relations. In offense was one of largest franchisees (“firms in ”, him. Transport Kontor) took — Gotha (Gyotenkhof) and German (Peterkhof) “court yard ” of overseas merchants.


This looks so same absurdly, if would was written:
North Korea had embassy in firm Adidas in period 1545 on middle 17 th century.
.
The, that Grand Novgorod now so prides himself on those, that "supported close relations" with ganzoy, so same humiliating, if would Stalin sought to become player Marco Borriello says. Or so same foolish, as trade and gender the link between Santiago and Irkytsk.
.
Mr., please, very you am asking, other series of films
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL … 991MTMseLU
.
And this was would well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iutojYvljnA

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8

MucmepX wrote:

audace roads from Pskov until Novgorod, between lake and Ilmen lakes there was extensive network ancient aquatic pathways.

Which are pathways, where and where?
I watched maps rivers, Grand Novgorod this Grand Dead end, could not be have this seats no premature great development. There need a was only fortress, as point reliance for protection from possible enemy invasions by.
.
Historians in turnover aimed a such the notion of as "Trading with", are building around this notions their fables. And who with whom and than, traded in that something? Fruits and vegetables pyorli been dragged through on bryovnam on two years in one end? For example path from Moscow until of Kyiv just 500 years ago held three months, and this nalegke simply with letter, and Treaty.
If someone an urge then quickly, with burden, enter from Black sea in Baltic, 300 years ago, then pathways two, and nor one not lies through Grand Novgorod.
CHAMPION Sea - Dnepr river - Smolensk - Vitebsk - Riga the Gulf and W. Novgorod the fuck don't need me anymore.
CHAMPION Sea - Don - Volga - Yaroslavl - Maloga - Onega, Lake - Ladoga - Finnish the Gulf and W. Novgorod the fuck don't need me anymore.
.
I here is think, that 400-600 years ago, benefits was will go there, get knows where, with the threat get lost or perish, only in is case, if is worth goal - someone to rob, otherwise simply a grid. Historical "trade path" this myths, trade beneficial under faint zatrate on a path, otherwise progar. So and ‘, when have learned effectively quickly cross sea and oceans, the first affair quickly jumped pillage natives, income art promised 300% profits for annual journey and with huge risk for life. Happened this 300-400 years ago, not 900-1,000, when attribute colorful advantages the Great Novgorod. Dutch masters of have come up with masts and their governance, the English roof Jewish bankers, quickly bought up these technologies, immediately same after as invented its printing press. Smashed of Spanish and the French and shipment capture planet. This the beginning of only 18 th century on its current reckoning.

+1

9

Dmitry" wrote:

Which are pathways, where and where?


Believe that examine alternative treatments for river path indeed could play greater role, only significantly before, when everywhere was imputed taiga and swamplands, in period colonization. Plus have Stoleshnikova (here: http://zarubezhom.com/Woda.htm) many examples of - pictures with what speed getting dry at all (steam?) rivers - not hindsight look in past.

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10

http://zarubezhom.com/Images/Khazars_Marshroutes.jpg

Dr. imprisons: "Apparently, Watson, this purely water-the war sekvestratsiey region former glacial unleavened sea can be explain - precisely then in mid-? 1,100’s - otpadenie Great Novgorod from Kievan Rus - this times! I.e., if before not was difference, where of Rurikovich sit in Kyiv or in Greater Novgorod, because direct water the road was between them without interruptions, and of course northern Varyags made better sit was closer to is that (Tsar Grad), closer to civilization, i.e. in Kyiv. But, to ?1,100-'s years from-for obmeleniya already directly with of Dnepr without voloka already in Ilmen Lake became not enter, so BAALtiyskaya Hanza Novgorod something in got year and intercepted! "

Last edited by Чубайс (Jun 14 2014 18:32:32)

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11

On subject name and locations:

"And now, Watson, in ties with this, we's try deductive resolve riddle name cities" Grand Novgorod "

Here there is a serious problem, Watson. Deal in that when the in 1999 Novgorod appropriated pochesniy title, aaneaou, "Grand", then this not envious big objections, because city already 1,000 years and he, in pritsipe, for 1,000 years can earn title "Grand." But deal in is, Watson, that Novgorod was "Grand" with the outset, when he, exactly, and became known - with got year, when Hanza his intercepted from of Kyiv, - and until 1478 year, when his took Moscow tsar Ivan-3. And after 1478 year he was simply "Novgorod." So here is the problem is, Watson, that

Cities as and people "Velikimi" - not are born! Alexander developer WorldForge not was a great under his birth, as not was and Peter Grand, or such same "Grand their", which let in Jews in Poland! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casimir_III_the_Great

Cities, too, not become Velikimi under his birth! Note, that all stone build Novgorod, whom now boasts, back not before of the time. Namely, - got year, when Novgorod suddenly became to be called as, aaneaou, "Grand." With what this would suddenly Novgorod made "Grand", when in got year this in the best case was Brevenchataya village. Grand was Kyiv! Kyiv then was stolitseyu Russias! And in Kyiv, incidentally from of the time, not retained nothing except at Sophia Cathedral, express, - of Kyiv, - of Novgorod St. Sophia Cathedral was simply carbon copy. And Novgorod simply mentioned until this time as point on a highway "from Varyag in Greeks", but realistically this was dervyannaya village, and nothing significant in Novgorod in period Kievan Rus not was happening, and until this and all the! Novgorod flourished only after got year, when he became Khazeyskim city, i.e. not conglomerate Russias! "Hanza" (Just Khibru word - net Hebrew) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanseatic_League - this was union trade, i.e. iverskikh cities Jewish merchants-radkhanitov Images / Jewish-Radhanites-Torgovy-puti-870goda.jpg, which winters now in Baltyskikh port cities. This they have seized Novgorod. And well naturally, that they have limited power novgorodskogo of the, which became their pawn move. And giant here nothing with which. Novgorod became deprived colony Khanzy, and no not, aaneaou, "free republic", as this us vtyukhivayut. With got year Novgorod became also "is free", as and Russia with 1991. "

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12

Чубайс wrote:

Grand was Kyiv! Kyiv then was stolitseyu Russias! And in Kyiv, incidentally from of the time, not retained nothing except at Sophia Cathedral, express, - of Kyiv, - of Novgorod St. Sophia Cathedral was simply carbon copy. And Novgorod simply mentioned until this time as point on a highway "from Varyag in Greeks", but realistically this was dervyannaya village, and nothing significant in Novgorod in period Kievan Rus not was happening, and until this and all the! Novgorod flourished only after got year, when he became Khazeyskim city, i.e. not conglomerate Russias!


•) Close enough watch on maps, to establish, that Kyiv was hilltop provincial town for walls. A years until Soviet power. And until this his simply't sp.

•) No nor single fact, credibly have about the "Kievan Rus." This the fictional country, which there is no nor on one map. https://www.raremaps.com/ Its have katkiny Germans, simply, to fill political, produced vacuum after the erasure a real of History, deflecting from Moscow excess research.

•) No about what got Year not can be and speech, because we no notions not have about events even just 250 years ago, when even were numerous Tartar on maps and living’Tsar Emperor, which summarily executed 239 years ago.

•) Wu science there is no methods the “stone and stone masonry, nor about what such accurate date (got) not can be and speech. Scientists can dating only organic, for example bones a mammoth (carbon reader analysis) and the, with mistakes in tens of thousands of years.

•) Even on official version of, 300 years ago was quite the other calendar, which kept letoischeslenie from creation World, not from any there Christ. Just 200 years ago dates were being recorded back not got, and for example i136 or Kh136.

•) W. Novgorod not worth on a highway, he is worth on a swamp and River Volkhov.

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13

--

Dmitry" wrote:

Grand Novgorod THAT is what not seemed so. There in Wikipedia written pro this picture "Plan Novgorod, rekonstruyovaniy on“ document content list 1675 year ”. "
Redeem on Russian language: On version of school of, which pereizdavali memories other school of, plan Novgorod seemed so THAT is what. Unfortunately plan different from existing Kremlin, so as is simply fantasy.


From urban fortifications persisted shafts.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Tower_of_Alexis.jpg/446px-Tower_of_Alexis.jpg?uselang=ru

Outlines fortifications (shafts) are visible with Sputnik’s:
http://content.foto.my.mail.ru/mail/gegompa3/4/h-12.jpg

To wonder nothing need not:
http://content.foto.my.mail.ru/mail/gegompa3/4/h-15.jpg

Last edited by MucmepX (Jun 15 2014 19:21:09)

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14

audace roads from Pskov until Novgorod, between lake and Ilmen lakes there was extensive network ancient aquatic pathways.

Dmitry" wrote:

Which are pathways, where and where?
I watched maps rivers, Grand Novgorod this Grand Dead end, could not be have this seats no premature great development. There need a was only fortress, as point reliance for protection from possible enemy invasions by.


http://pretich2005.narod.ru/map-history/dr-russ/shem-dr-put2.gif

Dmitry" wrote:

If someone an urge then quickly, with burden, enter from Black sea in Baltic, 300 years ago, then pathways two, and nor one not lies through Grand Novgorod.
CHAMPION Sea - Dnepr river - Smolensk - Vitebsk - Riga the Gulf and W. Novgorod the fuck don't need me anymore.
CHAMPION Sea - Don - Volga - Yaroslavl - Maloga - Onega, Lake - Ladoga - Finnish the Gulf and W. Novgorod the fuck don't need me anymore.


A as-same Vyshnevolotskaya water system?

http://igor-grek.ucoz.ru/_ph/2/2/360440795.jpg

Last edited by MucmepX (Jun 15 2014 20:42:30)

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15

constant wrote:

Of official version of history we all know, that bicycle carnage happened in 1914 year. If version of about shift poles is correct, the in the time on Chudskom lake of could not be no ice, so as Pole was in Nebraska, the US.


At how many I understood, you auctioning the in view version of"s poles or weekdays planet Earth"?

constant wrote:

And that same we are reading in Ipatevskoky Quiet: And there is worth the black on white: "In summer 6750 not meantime enabled." I.e., no important events on to the artist`s Chronicler in this year not was. And 6750 year - this as times 1914 year on a new letoschisleniyu. Could whether chasozvon miss such important event, as the ice carnage, if would it indeed happened? Question rhetorical, of course, could not would. Could whether he not know about offense? , too, could not. Means, his in is year and not was. If it and was, it must was happen after change of poles, when Europeans gravitated lingerie polurazrushennuyu country, which has been on territory modern Russia.
More precisely this legend was invented precisely after shift poles not previously 16 century on the basis any something real, but strongly twisted events.


Some researchers suggest, that battle commanded on land.

http://las-arms.ru/img/historical_battles/medieval_war/LedooePob/ledov3.gif

authenticity of an events confirms discovered grave sites that fell.

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16

Чубайс wrote:

I suppose that examine alternative treatments for river path indeed could play greater role.
. Not hindsight look in past.


I Agree. Significance aquatic pathways in absent difficult reassess.
About principal difference in efficiency between terrestrial and water transport:
Oh role water transport in fate cities

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17

Чубайс wrote:

. When in 1999 Novgorod appropriated pochesniy title, aaneaou, "Grand", then this not envious big objections, because city already 1,000 years and he, in pritsipe, for 1,000 years can earn title "Grand.".


the Federal law "Oh renaming the Propulsion Novgorod - in Propulsion Grand Novgorod ", in 1999 had its goal not emphasize significance cities, and rid" from confusion (with caveats type – “simply Novgorod ”,“ Novgorod Oct. OK / Afghan ”, “Novgorod-on-Volkhov, Russia ”), caused by by the Decree of the Presidium of of RSFSR from“ Oh renaming the Propulsion Eve in Propulsion The Bottom Novgorod ” in 1990 year.

Example:
?? Ecellent "NOVGOROD - 96. Press release from 23 July
an unfortunate history with geography - Mess with those, in what Novgorod: Mr. Greater or lower - already third time passes superturnir with the participation grandmasters extra-class - seems, received continuation of. Perishing how many times't eist world, are no: Popular "Europe plus" reported his audience about how, that "in the capital ancient Russias, the cradle the Russian state, glorious lower Novgorod began international the chess superturnir" Mister Grand Novgorod. "

Чубайс wrote:

What you attention, that all stone build Novgorod, whom now boasts, back not before of the time. Namely, - got year, when Novgorod suddenly became to be called as, aaneaou, the "Grand." With what this would suddenly Novgorod made "Grand", when in got year this in the best case was Brevenchataya village.


St. Sophia Cathedral1045 — 1050 years
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Saint_Sophia_Cathedral_in_Novgorod.jpg/320px-Saint_Sophia_Cathedral_in_Novgorod.jpg?uselang=ru

Nikolo-Dvorischenskiy Cathedral1113 — got years
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/Nikolsky_Cathedral.jpg/320px-Nikolsky_Cathedral.jpg?uselang=ru

Georgievskii Cathedralboth — 1,130 years
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/Георгиевский_собор.jpg/180px-Георгиевский_собор.jpg?uselang=ru

Church could of Christmas of the Virgincarry 1117 — 1125 years
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/17/Храм_Рожд..jpg/320px-Храм_Рожд..jpg?uselang=ru

Last edited by MucmepX (Jun 15 2014 22:48:35)

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18

MisterKh, you again possible along modern maps with modern the "Koktebel".
On your map made of this trick - on place ultra calligraphy should be name = swamp Bottom! That! Given, that in 13-14vekakh level of water was higher. You, enabled is almost comparable, offer bogatyryam and forbade the beat on belt in a quagmire. Why this them was need to? Iztoriki until now not have come up with nothing coherent. And about seats battlefield (on Koltsov) could have place in late 16 century during siege Poles Pskov! And, please, search map with levels of rivers and lakes 13-14 centuries, when Old Russa teetered on Bank Lake Ilmen. (I have why something not is obtained insert pictures of the.

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19

constant wrote:

I have why something not is obtained insert pictures of the.


http://sf.uploads.ru/t/yp0no.png

http://sf.uploads.ru/t/3yXbm.png

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20

constant wrote:

. Please, search map with levels of rivers and lakes 13-14 centuries, when Old Russa teetered on Bank Lake Ilmen.


Indeed, according to modern Hydrogeologists, in times of Middle Ages Lake Ilmen had significantly big size. Academic E.E. I. Eichwald (in 1856 g, according to research, argued, that Lake Ilmen in XIV digits Their Tulebelskim Gulfmatched almost take a careful to Old Rousset.
W. R. Verbitsky, A. E. Krotova-Putintseva (in 2012) in his scientific article "The story formation Ilmen-volkhovskogo Caribbean"write: ". In XII-XIV centuries Level of Volkhov, Russia in district Great Novgorod was higher modern on 2-3 Dam. "
Unfortunately, decent maps until not come across.
:no:

Last edited by MucmepX (Jun 18 2014 20:46:24)

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